[00:00:00] Speaker A: Manufacturing is at something of a crossroads. The people who keep plants running generally say they love their work. They feel accomplished, challenged, and secure in their careers.
At the same time, many are nearing retirement and fewer young engineers are coming up behind them. Add to that artificial intelligence, which is raising new questions about the future of decision making on the plant floor.
So what happens when a satisfied, experienced workforce meets a shrinking talent pipeline in accelerating technology?
Today, we dig into that very question with Amara Rozgus from Plant Engineering. This is Control Alt Manufacturing.
Hello, hello, hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Ctrl Alt Manufacturing podcast, Resetting and Rethinking Manufacturing. Our little podcast here is helping explore some of the people, technologies, and strategies that are driving the digital transformation of manufacturing.
I am Gary Cohen. Joining me is. And I can't even tell you how many times she yawned before we got on the apparently very tired Stephanie Neal.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: I'm very tired.
[00:01:09] Speaker A: How are you?
[00:01:10] Speaker B: Happy to be here. Thank you. I'm wide awake right now.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: Oh, good. All right.
So we've had a good one today. It's always nice when we have somebody we know well. We have one of our colleagues, Amara Razios, who's going to come on and talk to us about the 2026. What year are we in plant engineering? Salary survey. A lot of really good information in there. But first, because you did ask me a personal question last time. I'm gonna do the same thing to you. You mentioned that you were getting a puppy.
Let's hear about the puppy, right?
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Last time we spoke, I don't know if we talked about it on air, but I told you off air that, you know what, I'm getting a puppy this weekend. I'm so excited.
And I got catfished. I got catfished for a dog. About a dog. So it's so sad. It's so sad and infuriating. But I.
It's a long story. But like, a friend and a friend had an accidental litter.
Cute little puppy showed me pictures. I was corresponding with this person and she was asking me, you know, can you cover some of the vet costs before you get the puppy? And I'm like, yeah, sure. I'll, you know, set up the vet appointment. I think she wanted me to pay her money.
And I didn't. I said, I'll come get the dog. And I've already got the vet. And then I, a few days later, she's like, thank you. Well, she was like, so appreciative. Thank you so much. And then a few days later, we were getting a snowstorm. I'm like, can I come a little early to pick up the pup?
And she's like, oh, no, all the dogs have been claimed and there's not one for you. This was after weeks of corresponding with her. I had gotten all the dog equipment, like the, everything I needed from like the, you know, the, even a dog car seat and the cage and all that. Like. It's not a cage. What's it called? Is it a cage?
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Kennel.
[00:03:04] Speaker B: Kennel.
Like the thing that, I mean, if
[00:03:07] Speaker A: you're cruel, you could call it a cage.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: It's not a cage,
[00:03:13] Speaker A: but we humane people call them kennels. Stephanie.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: And like, and the little comfort, like animal stuffed animals to go in with the puppy. And so I was devastated. But can you believe it?
[00:03:26] Speaker A: I got, well, I mean, you've got all the stuff now you gotta go get a puppy.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: I know.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: You're too far down this path. You gotta get the dog now.
I know, yeah. I'm sorry that happened.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: I was heartbroken. I don't know what to do.
So I'm gonna wait a little bit and then it'll happen.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Hopefully it will for you. So we like to start the podcast with a sad story.
Yeah, I really am sorry that happened, but we do have. This is an awful segue. We do have great stuff coming.
But the salary survey that we're going to be talking about today, it's not just going to be a list of numbers. We're not really talking about a granular view of the data. But I think there's a bunch of trends that are going on in manufacturing. We see them all the time at shows and in webcasts and everywhere that we go.
And manufacturing obviously is highly automated now, but there's still really a human element to it, especially on the plant floor. You know, I mean, there's you, you think everything's being done by computers, by sensors and automation is everywhere. But you know, if you ever actually go into a plant floor, you know that when something goes wrong, and something tends to often go wrong, it's not AI or it's not automation that often gets to fix it. It is an engineer who's been doing this job for a long time and, and has that experience and knows, like, why is that machine vibrating? Weirdly, it's still people more than, I don't say more than machines, but it's still very.
A people centered enterprise.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: No, people are really the most important element. And I mean, we have to focus on that. And I was going to tell you, Gary, that I saw that there's some new reports that are showing that the manufacturing sector has started to pick up. And so, like last year, it wasn't that stable due to tariffs and high interest rates and an uncertain global economy. But according to the alliance for American Manufacturers, things are turning around because if interest rates stabilize, then consumers buy more manufactured goods. Right. So there's also AI investments, which means more demand for the equipment that goes into the data centers.
The question is, will this mean more jobs? And we're already at a skills shortage right now. And I think some of the data in the survey that Amara is going to talk about will show that, that we just don't have enough junior level, entry level people going into these fields.
So we've got to figure out how can we turn this ship around and get the pipeline of people in here. And I think, um, you know, it was really interesting to me when I read the survey that overall, people are really satisfied with their jobs.
[00:06:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: And, you know, and I think, like, I think it was like 50%, say, or like half the respondents were really happy. 49% said they're glad to be working. So I guess there was just 1% that's completely miserable. But we're not going to focus on them.
[00:06:38] Speaker A: Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, it's really a positive to see that manufacturing is picking up a little. And it's obviously something we hoped would happen because as you said last year, there was so much uncertainty. Everybody I talked to basically said we're kind of on hold right now. So it's nice to see that happening. But there is, as you said already, that skills gap. And there are, you know, a lot of older people who are working in engineering who are nearing retirement age. And we'll talk about this with Amara. And I don't think there is a pipeline of people following them in, which is why, you know, conversations like we're going to have today matter. And we're going to dig into really what's happening in the plant engineering workforce. You know, what's working, what's shifting, what might be coming.
But you and I aren't going to do that, Stephanie, because we're not that bright. Well, I'll speak for me. You're very bright. I'm not that bright.
We're going to have Amara from. Amara Roskos from Plant Engineering. Come on here in a second. She's the editor in chief of Plant Engineering, also a consulting specifying engineer, which serves industrial plant engineers, managers, safety experts, and others in the manufacturing market. She's been editor in chief of plant engineering since 2021, and has 25 years of experience in B2B publishing, including several engineering, research and construction publications.
Amara. Welcome aboard. Come on in.
[00:07:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't know how you expect me to follow a puppy story. I mean, if we could talk about that for the next 20 minutes, that'd be fine.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: But I'll tell you what we're gonna do is.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: Go ahead. Wait, what are we gonna do?
[00:08:15] Speaker A: Well, here's how we're gonna lighten things up. So Stephanie had a sad story, and then I'm gonna ask you, Amara, you just got back from vacation. Tell us a happy vacation story, and
[00:08:24] Speaker C: then we'll start with that happy vacation story. Lots of horseback riding. Lots of dirt in my teeth. Definitely. Definitely a good time. So how'd you. Positive animal story.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Where were you?
[00:08:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:41] Speaker C: Wickenburg, Arizona. So, middle of the desert, which is part of the dirt in my teeth, but, yeah, it was warm and compared to Chicago in February, it was amazing.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Absolutely nice.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: That is a happy story. Thank you, Amara.
[00:08:59] Speaker C: So, all right, let's get started.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: Before we start, though, Amara, you've been leading the effort around the annual salary survey for a while now. So why did plant engineering start looking into salary trends?
[00:09:12] Speaker C: Yeah, we've been doing this for many, many years. And the 2026 report, in particular identifies compensation and career information as it relates to plant engineers, managers, MRO professionals, anyone who has a direct influence on plant performance and productivity.
It's an annual report that looks at manufacturing and professionals and how much they're worth. I mean, money talks here, so that's helpful for conversations about compensation and benefits, people who are looking to improve their career, maybe get a new job or a leg up in their current company.
And it also looks at the industry in general, meaning it's an overview of the manufacturing sector, and it looks at trends and topics. And like you both alluded to the brain drain.
That full report can be
[email protected] research.
And anything that we talk about here is available as a downloadable report. So all those crunchy numbers that you want, it's all in that report.
[00:10:24] Speaker A: So when you look at the. Let's talk about some overarching trends. So when you look at the survey as a whole, what is the big story it's telling about the state of manufacturing and the state of the manufacturing engineering workforce right now?
[00:10:37] Speaker C: Well, that overarching story is that plant plant engineers are making a lot of money, but the manufacturing industry remains fragile. That current workforce, like you alluded to, is really experienced, and they're well compensated. They're satisfied at work.
Stephanie, I think you mentioned that number. 50% of respondents say they love going to work every day. So most of the respondents to this particular study are pretty darn happy.
But according to this study, the industry is heavily reliant on specific aging demographics.
72% say that they're over the age of 50.
And that data reveals a massive loyalty premium where those with 40 or more years of tenure saw salaries of 142,000 in 2025. So pretty good for manufacturing.
But new hires saw pay decreases.
And that signals a market desperate to hold on to the past.
And we're struggling to invest in the future.
And as an aside, the Bureau of Labor statistics considers workers 40 and older as old for reporting purposes. So might be depressing. Might be good to hear.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: Thank God none of US are over 40 on this call.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: I know.
[00:12:06] Speaker C: Precisely.
[00:12:06] Speaker B: By the way, today's my birthday.
[00:12:09] Speaker C: Happy birthday. Birthday.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: See, we had so many happy stories. Oh, 29 again.
[00:12:14] Speaker B: Yeah, 29.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: So you both mentioned, and I think one of the really interesting findings is that job satisfaction is pretty high. But it seems like it's driven more by intrinsic rewards than compensation. Although the compensation is good.
So what does that say to you, Amar, about the motivations of plant engineers right now?
[00:12:36] Speaker C: Yeah, Gary, info from the study suggests that for plant engineers, stability and culture outweigh salary.
So 76% view manufacturing as a secure career.
Financial compensation ranks only fourth at 8% on the list of factors that impact job satisfaction.
Instead, engineers are motivated by their environment.
Who do they work with? What's their relationships like? Or technical challenges.
And those two things drive them far more than their paycheck.
This indicates a workforce that stays for the community, for the problem solving nature of the work, not just for the bonus. And overall, they just like their jobs. They're happy.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: Yeah. So this feeling of accomplishment, Amara, ranked as a top driver of job satisfaction. Why do you think that resonates so strongly in plant engineering and manufacturing roles?
Right.
[00:13:40] Speaker C: That feeling of accomplishment is the number one driver. That's at 16%.
And in manufacturing, work is tangible. Engineers can point to a physical product or a system. Maybe it runs better because of their efforts.
Maybe a novel predictive program makes a huge difference in how their plant works or runs more smoothly.
This tangible output really offers that psychological reward that abstract roles just they can't match it.
And the fact that this ranks double the percentage of financial compensation confirms that these professionals view themselves as technical experts and problem solvers first and foremost and employees second.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: So a Lot of these technical experts, obviously, as we talked about, are kind of skewing on the older side, many nearing retirement. How urgent is this demographic shift facing plant engineering and what risk does it pose if organizations don't act now?
[00:14:49] Speaker C: Good point, Stephanie. This is a huge problem. It's not just a problem in this industry, but it's a problem across the workforce in general.
31% of the workforce force in this study are 60 to 69 years old, and another 14% are 70 or older. That means nearly half the workforce is in a retirement danger zone, so to speak.
11% of respondents said they plan to retire soon. I don't know what soon means to them, but compensation data reflects the panic, really.
Companies are increasing salary for employees 70 or older. That salary has gone up 14% in 2025 to more than $125,000. And that's likely to delay their departure if they're earning more money.
And if organizations don't act, they're facing that brain drain that money just won't eventually be able to fix.
Anyone in HR or recruitment knows this.
Internships, technology, and innovation using newer recruitment tools, all of these things can attract people in high school or in college to the manufacturing sector.
Manufacturing may have lost its luster as sexy, so it's really primed for having a perception change.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: Did it once. Did it once have some luster as being sexy?
[00:16:18] Speaker C: Well, I don't know if sexy is necessarily the word, but people want to look good in their jobs, they want to love what they do, and they want to be proud of telling people what it is they work in.
[00:16:30] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think we're definitely shifting towards that. Like, I think it used to be this dark, dangerous, dirty place. And we are definitely shifting towards more sex appeal in the manufacturing sector, for sure.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: On a side note, whenever I call something sexy like manufacturing, my children look at me like I'm insane.
I'm like, oh, that car is really sexy. And they're like, what?
I don't know if that translates to the younger generation.
Amar, let's dig a little deeper into what you were just talking about. So the number one reported business challenge in this survey was a lack of junior team members.
So we got an aging workforce and not enough junior team members coming in.
What are you hearing from industry leaders about why the pipeline isn't keeping up? And then also, can you fix it for us? What's going to fix it? Fix the whole industry?
[00:17:16] Speaker C: Yeah, I fixed the whole industry.
[00:17:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: Please do it.
[00:17:20] Speaker A: We'll. We'll. We'll listen Go ahead.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: All right.
[00:17:24] Speaker C: Well, we all know industry leaders are struggling to recruit. As you just said, the number one business challenge is 34% say that there aren't enough junior team members to fill roles or to prepare for the future.
There's a couple different causes here. The data points to a potential cause.
The industry may be undervaluing entry level talent. In this most recent study, the base salary for employees with less than five years of experience, it dropped by 14% to about $98,000.
If the industry can't offer competitive starting salaries while simultaneously complaining about this lack of junior team members, the pipeline's going to remain broken. So both of those things have to be resolved.
[00:18:22] Speaker A: That makes sense. And then there's obviously a problem with these people retiring. Soon, all this institutional knowledge is going to walk out the door with them. So how is the industry handling this knowledge transfer that needs to happen? Are companies being proactive? Is this still a looming vulnerability?
What's going on?
[00:18:42] Speaker C: Again, this is not just specific to manufacturing, this is across the workforce. But this industry in particular does appear to be reactive rather than proactive.
So the combination of the junior team member shortage and the massive salary hikes for anyone with 30 or 40 years of experience, it really implies that companies are hurting, hoarding experts rather than successfully offloading that knowledge.
If 11% of the workforce retires soon and there are not enough junior team members to receive that institutional wisdom, if you want to call it that, the industry really faces a huge loss of operational continuity.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Well, I'm wondering if that if they're thinking about replacing that institutional knowledge with AI. Right. So we talk about artificial intelligence all the time and maybe replacing human decision making, that ranked as a major concern in the survey.
Amar, do you think that plant engineers see AI more as a disruption to their roles or as a tool that could enhance them and help them?
[00:19:56] Speaker C: Yeah, AI is a major concern. Again, I think you could say this is across multiple industries, but particularly and manufacturing and industrial processes.
AI is viewed with a lot of apprehension. And just like a lot of other industries I follow.
Artificial intelligence replacing human decision making is a huge business threat. In this study, 36% said that it was a massive threat. And that only trails that like political and economic changes stuff going on in our national, an international business right now.
Practical tools like AI driven predictive analytics are on the radar. They're not really dominant yet.
And this suggests engineers see AI less as a helpful co pilot and more as a potential usurper. My new favorite word of the technical challenges and decision making that they value very highly.
But this is where companies can really stand out. They can blend the declining workforce and AI use.
They can feed documents or details into AI and ask it to generate training materials for junior staff.
Or they can encourage current employees to create videos or audio recordings which could then be transcribed or cleaned up by AI to create that resource library.
One of the challenges, the proprietary nature of what these experts do. It might make them stop to think about inputting data into an AI tool because rather than losing that intellectual property, they might want to think of opting out of allowing the information to be used publicly, as it often is in a lot of AI tools.
Or they can create their own in house system that simply transcribes things without using an AI tool at all. So a simple recording, mm.
[00:21:57] Speaker B: This is all such great information.
So, but let's fast forward, let's look five, ten years from now.
What do you think will determine whether the plant engineering workforce remains strong and secure? And what should today's leaders be doing differently to prepare? What do you think?
[00:22:17] Speaker C: I think a lot of leaders are doing this. It is oftentimes a top down approach.
The industry really has to pivot from retaining the old to enticing the new.
That comes in the form of workers and in the form of technology.
So the current strategy of paying those veterans, those people who have 40 or more years of experience and knowledge, that's just not sustainable anymore.
Future security depends on two things, really.
Normalizing compensation for early career engineers to fix that recruiting pipeline and successfully integrating those AI tools that aid, rather than replace the human decision making. That's the biggest fear, replacing that human decision making that the 50% of that workforce is really concerned about.
[00:23:14] Speaker A: I'm going to throw one more question at you here.
Was there anything in this study that really jumped out to you, surprised you? Like what was a number that you saw something, you saw a trend that really caught your attention.
[00:23:28] Speaker C: One of the things that I've been watching in this study as well as our other studies, is that engineers, people who are experts in their particular field, like I mentioned, they're not retiring. They might be working part time, they might be working full time, but they're working well into their 70s to again continue that knowledge within the industry and also to ensure that their retirement is fully paid for.
Obviously we can't control their financial situation, but we definitely want to ensure that we're collecting all of the knowledge and experience that they have. So just the number of older workers always surprises me.
[00:24:12] Speaker A: Fantastic. Amara, great stuff. I mean, it's not like we're not gonna see you. I talk all the time. We work together.
But thanks for coming on the podcast. Whenever we have these big reports, big surveys come out, it's always great to get a little of the information out there. And like Amara said, if you want to find it, plant engineering, look under research.
It's definitely worth your time. Amara, thanks so much for being here.
[00:24:32] Speaker C: Yeah, awesome. Thank you both so much.
[00:24:35] Speaker B: Thanks, Amara.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: All right, we'll see you soon.
All right, there we go. Amara Rozgas, Plant Engineering. And to be fair, consulting, specifying engineer as well.
Yeah, I don't know why. Maybe because I'm money hungry.
I like this survey a lot. I mean, I think there's we here at shows that we go to. I mean, everywhere we are, you hear about this kind of brain drain. You hear about the skill shortage, and it's nice to see numbers that are backing that up and it really is a success. Significant problem. If great that people like Amar said are staying on into their 70s, if you want to work into your 70s, fantastic. But they're going to go eventually.
And if there isn't somebody coming up behind them, then what happens? I mean, this could be a huge issue for the industry.
And it's somewhat surprising to me that they aren't offering better packages to income, to new employees, to. Because that's obviously a good way to get people in the door.
[00:25:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, also, I feel bad for the people in their 70s that are still working. I mean, well, let's face it, they're engineers, they're problem solvers. They probably will get bored just sitting around. They want to keep working. But if they're working because they need to secure their retirement, that's sad. We need to pay them more. But I think we can look at this survey, and it's not just for the engineers doing the job, which I think is great. You have to have a. You have to know, like, how much are people actually making here? How can I negotiate? Right. So this is a great baseline to do that. And we could flip this around to the manufacturers and say, if you're hiring in 2026, be sure to create a culture that creates job satisfaction. Establish more relationships for more experienced engineers to mentor junior team members. Like, there's so many other things that can make the job and the role that much more appealing to the next generation. And. And let those 70 year olds go and play golf. Like, come on.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I mean, as Amara said earlier, salary's a part of it, but that sort of intrinsic motivation was Actually bigger than salary. So like you said, creating community, a nice work environment, challenging problems to solve, that all is a factor too. So, yeah, really, really, really good stuff there.
You know, if you want to find the rest, the rest of that report, see all the details, as Amara said, go on to plantengineering.com it should be under the research.
Really good stuff there. And there we go. We've done another one, Stephanie. Another one out the door. And you still puppyless.
[00:27:14] Speaker B: Yeah, and I'm. Yeah, and I'm still awake. I didn't yawn once.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: It's true. I didn't see you yawn one time.
I'm so proud of you.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: It was a good conversation. I thought Amara had so much like good information. So I really do encourage people to go and download the full report because it's chock full of good stuff, so.
[00:27:34] Speaker A: Absolutely. And thanks to everyone out there who is listening and with us.
I hate saying this, but, like, follow you know the drill. Every podcast says it's at the end. Do it like us. Follow us. It does help.
And this is, you know, a lot of what we talk about is from the control engineering site, controlengine.com, but we do have these sister sites all through our company, engineering.com, plant engineering, like we did today. Consulting, specifying, Engineer, a bunch of other places where you get great information.
[00:28:02] Speaker B: Yep.
So please, not only like and follow, but share and tell all your friends about Control Alt Manufacturing. Yeah.
[00:28:13] Speaker A: We're trying to get you bigger salaries.
That's why you should come listen to us.
[00:28:17] Speaker B: Exactly.
And tell us your puppy stories. We want to know.
[00:28:23] Speaker A: All right, Stephanie. I can't close this. I opened it. You got to close it. Bring the box.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: I'm going to close it the way I always do. Have a wicked good day.
[00:28:32] Speaker A: Thanks, everybody.
